I recently posted a question on twitter:
Downswing Question
I asked this question because of a conversation I had with another TPI Certified Golf Fitness Instructor about this subject. It seemed to me that it was expressed at the seminar that a hip rotation leading the downswing would help prevent over the top. Me and the other Pro had a difference of opinion. He tweeted me this:
TPI Question Request
Here are all of the replies:
BSmithgolf Reply
davidcolly reply
IanPeekGolf reply
Jstruebs reply
kingsforest reply
ParkythePro reply
I must say, I wish I had a few more replies so I tweeted mytpi but haven’t heard a response back yet. I may have misunderstood their comment and if so, will post it here.
This debate has been going on for many years and I’m sure it will continue. It’s good because it’s for the betterment of all golfers.
Please share your comments and opinions about how initiating the downswing with a hip turn will affect over the top.
Related posts:
encourage! Why create un-natural separation? The hands move away initially and they should move( pull ) down first sensation wise from the top of swing, creating efficient and effective lag. I have just finished an article on “Understanding Sequence in Black & White.” The bump move is okay if you’re athletic enough to catch up if you separate and are one of the best players in the world. Over the last 18 years of instructing this 100% gets people in the right sequence and hitting it better, from Zero’s to 36 hdcps.
Jason,
Thanks for the comment.
John
I am not TPI certified but in my opinion like all other movements on the golf swing it depends how and when that rotation occurs. If you watch the transition to release of a pitcher then you see rotation allow the scapula to work properly and get the forearm in behind the body. Conversely if there is, what I call, an initial bump of the lead hip and rises above the trail hip then the scapula is engaged properly and moves the right forearm down and behind the body to encourage a down and to the right path.
A “sensation” of the arms moving first in a “pulling” fashion not a dropping motion. No question in slow motion video the hips move initially but to force them out in front and dis-associate them ultimately puts golfer’s in a poor sequence and the have to recover with the upper body, Tiger has had this issue and many many others.
Rob and Jason,
Thanks for your input guys.
JG
John,
My opinion, TPI may have over simplified. Before hip rotation there is an establishment of the lead leg as the pivotal axis (bump), an anterior tilting of the pelvis and then, the hips rotate.
George,
Is that the way you understood from TPI when you went through it also? I just wanted to make sure I am presenting each side accurately. I really enjoyed my TPI but wondered if it was possibly over simplified for the fitness and medical people. Maybe that will be addressed in level II or III.
JG
It depends entirely on how its carried out. A too aggressive hip turn combined with an unathletic and lagging downstroke will precipitate an outside-in swing. As some have stated, athleticism and understanding of the ideal hip/shoulder positions at moment of contact plays a very large part in this. Bottom line is that someone can take either side on this issue and be correct, depending on the situation. I see a good number of golfers effecitvely deal with this by using a different mind-set. Instead of thinking “turn my hips” to initiate the downswing, they think “turn my belly button”. That appears to soften-better coordinate the downstroke moves.
You make some excellent points.
I agree that someone can take both sides of the issue.
That was kind of the reason I brought it up as I’m not a big fan of blanket statements.
JG
Hi John having worked with force plates for the last 5 years studying ground reaction forces and their effects on the swing, I can tell you as a matter of fact that if the hips rotate first in the downswing the club will definately move outside the plane line. This is when video alone can lie to you because the club may look to be in the correct position relative to the body however the bodies C.O.G (centre of gravity) has moved towards the ball therefore everything is now outside of its original starting position. Hope this is helpfull. SC