Here’s my reasoning. I tend to try and picture the first day a player says they’re going to take the game seriously and they head out to the range. I believe they look at a target and try to make the ball go there. It could be argued that they try to make contact first then try to make the ball go in the air. Fair argument. Let’s say they have conqured those two and now they want the ball to go to a specific place.
I don’t think it is reasonable to imagine that this golfer would figure out the face first. I think it is much more likely that they get some path that is relatively toward the target with a face that is so far open that the ball goes way right. They are starting to build a relationship between what the club face feels like relative to the direction it is going. They probably don’t know they are building this relationship but they are.
I agree with Brian Manzella when he says all the other stuff that people do on the way back to the ball is to try and get that ball to go where they are looking. Most slicers will choose some sort of swinging left to try and make the ball go less right.
They usually get to a point where the ball starts close to or left of the target. Some D Plane people and Trackman would call that a closed face because they choose to use the target line as the line that determines open and closed. However, to the golfer, there is no way it feels closed. I believe closed is relative to the swing not the target.
All slicers need to learn how to feel closed relative to the path to begin to fix their slice. I know a great many teachers that will choose to fix a slicers over the top move before they fix the face. The golfer will feel no change in the face/path relationship with this method. I do believe that some may figure out they need to do something with the face different if we swing more right but most will not.
As teacher’s, we need to teach them how to feel face relative to path because this is how they can relate to the club during the motion. The clubface is trying to open for most of the downswing. We need to teach them how to fight this feeling(coined gravity torque by Damon Lucas) so they can get that face more square.
I want my slicers hitting pulls and pull hooks as soon as possible so I know they know they are doing something different to the clubface. After they see a bunch of balls go way left, they will be much more willing to try and swing a little more right.
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I suppose because I played a footy (soccer), I always understood the relationship of the ball to the face of the club and would practice the effects of changing the face. But very recently (Monday) I had a lesson with my local pro (@cheneygolf) who showed my feet position were set towards the right and I was unconciously closing the club face at the top of my swing to compensate and get back to my target which led to a very inconsistent club result and distance with all of my clubs. My stance was also very narrow. The nightmare shot always resulted in a straight shot left. I had concentrated very hard on the club face and hips for months thinking that was the source. Once I attained the proper stance and worked on the club face at the top of my swing by shorting a very long swing, I was more consistent and able to get an accurate read off the club face and finally start hitting the ball with a true square face. So I thought I was properly squaring up the face but in reality I was playing with a shut face. The face of the club told the truth on impact, but it took an external view to correct the issue as it’s not something I could have resolved on my own. So I definitly agree with Brain Manzella and your comment “feel face relative to path because this is how they can relate to the club during the motion.” Could you learn this on your own or is it better to do this with PGA Pro?
Yancy,
That is a great question. Some can absolutely diagnose and solve problems on their own. Some will require help. In my opinion, the key is knowing what you are doing because you can feel it and then changing it. Knowing that you’ve changed it will come down to feeling it also.
Sometimes the only separating players that break 80 and those that shoot in the 90′s is that they can feel things that the others can not. It may be because they can’t feel it or don’t know that they are supposed to.
Keep up the great work. You’ll be under 90 in no time.
John
I could not agree more. European Tour coach Jamie Gough looked at my swing a few weeks ago and instantly decided it was time to get my club-face squared up. He got me doing full backswings with an abbreviated follow through, purely in order to get me feeling that ‘release’. He said I should feel my left arm rotating just before impact. Sure enough, after a while I started to get some balls going straight, then left. He was pleased with the hook because it meant I was releasing the club face!
He said that all I need to do then was to learn to swing straight through (in my case, just as you’ve mentioned, that means swinging a little more to the right) and then I would have a much more effective golf swing. It takes some getting used to after years of doing it wrong, especially as it involves precise timing. But I can report that good progress is being made!
This is certainly a topic that can be looked at from two sides.
I still think for most that clubface should come first but I have also had great success moving the path first.
JG
Has any research been done that investigates how the flight will be affected if the clubface is “closing” vs. “opening”.
For example, if the face is 3 degrees open to the path line, but is closing at impact, will the flight be different than if the face is 3 degrees open to the path line but is rotating open at impact?
Assume a centered hit for both scenarios.
From a mathematical (calculus) point of view, it seems like there would have to be some difference.
Sue,
From the research I have heard from, the face path relationship that is determined for ball flight occurs when the ball is at max deformation during compression. It doesn’t matter if the face is opening or closing. It only matters at that point in time.
There’s also some info to support that every clubface is closing slightly for an golfer that isn’t purposely trying to open it.
Thanks for the question.
JG
great post, i’ve thought similarly but haven’t been able to put it into words as well as this did.
john, do you think clubface rate of rotation in the impact zone has an effect on consistency? i don’t mean while the club is in contact with the ball, rather how long the clubface stays square (or close to square) while coming into and out of the hit. i’d equate this idea to some of the things i’ve heard from moe norman and trevino about holding the clubface off or letting the clubhead follow on down the target line.
So, I guess you like the closed-club face-drill for curing too steep angle of attack, out-to-in path or casting.
I was guessing to work w/ this drill for some of my players